Peter Kafka

Recent Posts by Peter Kafka

Ping Averts Its Gaze: Apple's New Social Network Doesn't Really Want to Know Much About You

Steve Jobs says Ping is supposed to be a “social music discovery” service: You share your musical taste with friends and vice versa. But if you really want to share, you’re going to find it harder than you think.

This isn’t about Apple’s walled garden that keeps Ping walled off from Facebook and other services. It’s about Apple’s decision to wall off Ping from your own music collection.

Steve Jobs’s demo yesterday gave the impression that Ping would link up with users’ iTunes music player and library. But Ping only cares about what you do on the iTunes Store–it has no idea what you actually listen to and like.

If you buy something at iTunes, you can tell your pals. And if you want to recommend something, and you can find it in Apple’s store, you can click on the link there and talk it up.

But if it doesn’t happen in the store, it doesn’t happen at all.

You can see why Jobs, who has made a point of playing up Apple’s privacy bona fides in recent months, wouldn’t want to automatically peek into people’s iTunes collections. And Apple’s “Genius” feature, an opt-in service that does track what you play on iTunes, makes a point of not connecting that data to your name and account information. But it would make a lot of sense to let people choose to open up their library.

Because, as Apple knows very well, most people fill their iTunes collection with music they acquire from every source but the iTunes store.

“97% of the music on the average iPod was not purchased from the iTunes store,” Jobs wrote in 2007. Hard to imagine it’s changed much since then.

You could go out of your way to tell Ping about what you do with your iTunes collection. But, again, if you’re inclined to do that, you’re probably already doing that somewhere else. Like on Facebook. Or a Tumblr account.

And if you don’t make the effort, Ping will know next to nothing about you, because Apple has blindfolded the service. Another metaphor, via Debcha on Twitter: “Basing my musical tastes on my iTunes downloads is like judging my eating habits by what I buy at highway rest stops.”

Maybe Jobs thinks that Ping users will be happy with rest-stop recommendations. My hunch is that he plans on fleshing it out over time, trading privacy for utility. We’ll see….

[Image credit: Billy Rowlinson]


comments so far. Add yours.

  • http://twitter.com/bankruptrocks Bankrupt

    It’s only an elite of 23 countries that get Ping, the rest of the world doesn’t matter for Apple. Very annoying.

    http://bankrupt.hu/2010/09/02/.....n-curtain/

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_U2H7S4MG6PLQUVOA2CFNMZ2QUQ Ric Desan

    You gotta love jobs idea of social. Its kind of like a locked down share only the stuff you buy over and and over again while we dont care what you already have as we screw you out of your money sort of network. I think this idea might grow to hit hundreds strong!

  • http://twitter.com/likedotfm Like.fm

    Well Like.fm works in all countries, and it works for Winamp as well as iTunes. (Disclaimer: I’m the founder)

  • http://twitter.com/likedotfm Like.fm

    I’ve been working on the same thing as Ping for the last 3 months called Like.fm. It works in all browsers, works for YouTube, Pandora, Winamp, as well as iTunes. And it tracks actual song plays, not purchases.

  • http://blog.eaglespace.com delhiboy

    No surprise here – this is the typical Apple way. Start slow. Tweak. Refine. Add. Tweak. Refine. Repeat.

  • Anonymous

    > It’s about Apple’s decision to wall off Ping
    > from your own music collection.

    No, they did not wall it off. Those are 2 separate buildings, one called “iTunes” that was built in 1999, and one called “iTunes Store” that was built in 2002. It’s not that Ping is averting its gaze … Ping does not have X-Ray vision or ESP. Ping cannot build a road between those 2 buildings because they cross property lines and legal contexts.

    Ping is not just artist names and song titles, it’s 30 second clips and a buy button. Not just one buy button, but one for each country. I’m not following you to see what songs are in your library. That has been possible for 10 years through about 1 million different methods. With Ping, I’m following you to hear the songs in your library and buy the ones I like for myself and have them immediately appear on my iPod. It’s not talking about music at a party, it’s a listening party.

    It may be possible at some point to add songs to your Ping page that you have in your local library if they also exist in iTunes Store. But even that is probably a legal nightmare, and it is very much a Ping v2.0 feature if at all. Adding songs that are not in iTunes Store is not going to happen because the user does not have the right to upload 30 second clips of the songs in their locally-stored library. Remember that iTunes is not a cloud app. It’s a local app. The user is legally responsible for everything they do with it. And iTunes Store is not going to track a non- iTunes Store source for every non- iTunes Store track in every country around the world, even if those sources existed, which in most cases, they do not.

    This is kind of like DRM again, where Apple was blamed for DRM but really it was the recording industry that was behind that. If you look in iPhoto, there are Facebook and Flickr and other buttons to share your library online. However, users own their iPhoto libraries … they only license their iTunes libraries. It’s not that Apple can’t make these kinds of buttons. But if you take those buttons from iPhoto and put them in iTunes, then users will be sued.

  • Anonymous

    Wow, I never thought about it that way before.

    http://www.online-privacy.tk

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_AJP7ESWNZ7YGX4I6D746RTA6WY Noah Abrahamson

    “97% of the music on the average iPod was not purchased from the iTunes store,” Jobs wrote in 2007. Hard to imagine it’s changed much since then.”

    The world has changed a lot since 2007, at least with electronic media and consumption. It seems a little short sighted to ignore that.

  • http://colemanjolley.com/ colejolley

    My experience has been different. I created a profile, it connected my past reviews on the store, and also showed icons of albums in my collection as favorites that didn’t come from store purchases, but were starred highly by me. I didn’t make those specific “like” selections other than to star them in my collection, previous to Ping. Clearly they’re getting some of my info. Which I am fine with. The whole point of turning on the service and creating a profile was so I could share music tastes and recommendations with people in my social network and maybe even grow it a bit. PLUS I’ve already discovered some additional great stuff by browsing through followers of artists. Facebook isn’t very good at this stuff because they are a couple of clicks away from music sources, and MySpace always did a really poor job of keeping users linked to the bands they like.

  • http://pithagora.com fjpoblam

    Ping is an iTunes sales gimmick. Anything beyond that?

  • http://mediamemo.allthingsd.com/ PKafka

    Interesting – based on the info Apple has put out publicly, and what their PR reps have told me, their shouldn’t be any tie in between Ping and your personal iTunes collection. Any other way they could have gotten your ratings/favorites?

  • http://www.adamkuhr.com ad7am

    Mr. Kafka, in your testing of Ping did you have the Genius feature enabled in iTunes? That gives access to information about your full iTunes library, and might be the gateway for Ping as well.

  • http://mediamemo.allthingsd.com/ PKafka

    I did. And according to Apple, the two shouldn’t be connected – Apple specifically says that Genius is data is kept anonymous. I wouldn’t care if that changed, but I’m sure they would ask me first. Right?

  • http://www.facebook.com/abugida Tom Ross

    John, iTunes does recognize CDs when you rip them, so that’s a start.

  • http://www.facebook.com/abugida Tom Ross

    Bankrupt, once the music companies would offer worldwide licenses, you bet that Apple wwillould offer a music store in Hungary as well. The way the current legal situation is, Apple probably cannot justify negotiations with media companies in every small market.

    They do offer apps in almost 100 countries after all. Even in Hungary, right? That’s because they control the license terms for apps, but not for music.

    By the way, Google Marketplace only supports payments in 13 countries.

  • http://www.facebook.com/abugida Tom Ross

    Let me guess, you never pay for music at all?

  • http://www.facebook.com/abugida Tom Ross

    Peter, so do you build your whole assumption of the typical iTunes user on a statement Steve made in 2007? It’s 3 years later now and customer behaviour has evolved. I could imagine that, out of the iTunes Store’s 150 million active customers, there are at least several million who use it as their main or sole source of music. I happen to be one of them.

    My main gripe with Ping is this: On Ping I can post 30 sec previews of my favourites songs. On Facebook, I can post a Youtube video with the whole song. I wish that rumour of longer song previews had come true.

  • http://mediamemo.allthingsd.com/ PKafka

    Actually, if I had to guess, I’d assume that the percentage of iTunes purchased music in the average user’s library has decreased. Because digital music sales have flattened out, but the number of iTunes users (and presumably, the size of their collections) has increased.

    But let’s say, for argument’s sake, that there are 10 million people whose iTunes libraries are composed primarily of music they purchased from iTunes (I believe it’s a small fraction of that). That would still mean that 93% of the iTunes user base would remain frustrated by Ping’s limits.

    Have to assume that Jobs and company know this, and plan on addressing it some point.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ben-Hegarty/691527323 Ben Hegarty

    Linking Ping to your music data opens users up to a ‘whole bag of hurt’ to use a phrase from Steve. Basically if people can see your music collection online then imagine what RIAA and their various lawyers would do with that information???

  • George Slusher

    @Tom Ross (I cannot reply to the comment–Disqus doesn’t work):

    “On Facebook, I can post a Youtube video with the whole song.”

    If you made the video, you are probably violating the copyright on the song, unless you bought the right to make and post the video. That is a form of piracy.

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